Of course this concept eludes Fundie cause it´s only in the constitution, not in the bible and this scripture is the only written text worth reading for him

I love that a pentagram is a "heathen symbol of baby murder", but a representation of the apparatus on which Jesus actually died is somehow ok.

(First comment. Disclaimer: I'm an actual Catholic, but the nice kind, with a pagan fiancée ;o)

The seperation of church and state is an illusion. God is everywhere in government. The ones who see the lack of separation are those who are not of the xstian faiths.
“Cattle die and kinsmen die,
thyself too soon must die,
but one thing never, I ween, will die, --
fair fame of one who has earned.”

-Havamal, Verse 76-

Gee fundie how many points did the star that guided everyone to Jesus' stable have? In nearly every depiction it has 5 =P

xXxBlessed BexXx

This question just occured to me, how long has the pentagram been around? When did it first appear in history? I have yet to read when the actual pentagram appeared in pagan history, which leads me to believe it was created when the recurrance of the pagan movement began 60+ years ago, so....?

~*Shadow Dancer*~

In this case, Wikipedia does have good info on the history of the pentagram. To summarize, it goes back a few centuries. Ironically for Fundie, it was used for quite a while as a symbol of Jesus' wounds.

*grins*
Welcome, lovvie. I'm a Christian myself... mostly. As for seperation being in the constitution, I hate to be a brat on this, but it's NOT!
Go read the constitution... that way we can all get together and get it put in there for real!

I'm the resident christian mystical magick person of total awesomeness!
(Thanks Strawberry_11)

while the phrase 'seperation of church and state' does not appear in the constitution itself. the concept is an interpretatino of the 1st amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

This kind of reminds me of my friend. He works in retail store which will remain nameless because of whats going on. He's really militant/angry about the way hes become the token pagan and he really got his feathers ruffled around samhain. He talked alot of separation of C and S to me and I just told him to make like a duck *shrug* I hope I gave him the right advice.

\m/ Pagan the only way to \m/

The signers of the constitution debated freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. Yet you look at every law almost and it is mainly based on Christian laws. We have some sever TV censorship compared to other countries, religion in the schools, and the powerful religious lobbyist pushing laws through. In California they were trying to get a law passed that would allow a landlord to refuse to rent to any person who they religiously objected to. Bush is one of the largest religion pushers there is.

It is related to the argument of separation of religion and state, and how some people are of the mind that "This country was founded on freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion" and all that mullarky. Read on, I found this interesting indeed.

Quotes from our founding fathers:

The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.
-- George Washington (confirmed on www.quotedb.com)

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-- Thomas Jefferson (from The American Theory of Church and State by Loren P. Beth)

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
-- Thomas Paine (confirmed on www.quotedb.com)

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
-- Thomas Jefferson (confirmed on www.quotedb.com)

The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
-- Abraham Lincoln (confirmed on www.quotedb.com)

Cool. BTW, you spelled malarky wrong, lol, sorry, perfectionist :P
It doesn't really have anything to do with what you were saying, but I read once on this Pagan site, can't remember the name of it, but it said something like this:
"If you put the Bible out into the wind and rain, it will be destroyed. The wind and rain ARE our Bible. A church will eventually crumble and return to the Earth; the Earth IS our church."
Sorry, just thought I'd put it in, it sounds quite sweet :)
And a little message to the resident Christians here; You are so cool to be so tolerant. I know people already said that, but I had to have my say :P I used to be Catholic myself, but I converted.

My karma ran over my dogma

He got so many point for asking and then he says something like that lol **shakes head**. lol Also just wanted to say Merry Meet and you totally rock to our resident Christians

Blessed be,

Willow

Dick Chaney is up to this its a conspiracy i tell you. Of course most people don't even study the American Constitution. A lot of people don't know half of our first 10 amendments. I found out through other people in other countries know more about our history than we do. it is scary.

I never get why people are scared of me.

My father acts the same way Fundie does. He's a die-hard Catholic and expects eveyone in our family to be as well.

Well, once I was free of the brainwashing Catholic school I was forced to go to from kindergarden to 5th grade, I opened my eyes and realized, "My god, Catholics like my dad are dicks. I'm getting the hell outta this religion."

And now, I'm Agnostic, for lack of anything better to say, even if I still go to church on Easter and Christmas. Only cause those masses are pretty, and I like the songs. ^^

Plus, I've always been tolerant of all religions, even during the brainwashing. If I wasn't, I wouldn't like this site so much. ^_^

Ah, Christmas. The only time that Christians seem to be okay with an unwed mother, foreigners travelling without visas, some guys in dresses (it's not a dress, it's a robe!), and a donkey standing around their baby messiah with a big ol' pentagram placed up on top of the whole scene. ;)

(Tongue-firmly-in-cheek...)

And for whatever holiday you celebrate, may it be joyous!

I am currently serving in the USAF and I have been surprised on several occations at the tolerance of the Air Force in reference to religions. While there are a few people here and there that have caused problems in the US military in general, the majority is very accepting. In fact, while I was deployed to a joint force military base in an Islamic country, I not only met with but also practiced a few rituals with fellow Pagans. The chapelins even worked with the other religious groups to change their scheduled worship times slightly as to give us an opportunity to use the chapel for our rituals. They had let us use other places on base, but due to the fire restriction we werent allowed to burn candles in those places so we had to find another place to worship which is when they offered the chapel.

And we can now have One Paid for by the Gov't on a Tombstone if you Die in action Yes this did Pass!!! Yeah for the person that pushed so hard to hve her husband remembered the way He would have wanted and not with something He didn't believe in.
Have You ever noticed that most Hospitals are run by churches? I have nothing personal against anyone worshiping how they want just don't make me sit in a room with something that creeps me out and tell me you want me to get better. More then one person died on a cross ad I don't want them in my room either.
Bright Blessings

Is it spelt Chaney for a reason?

I've had devout Catholics at my Yule celebrations, and they behaved perfectly well. I've also had a Jew, and various atheist and agnostics, mixed in with my pagan friends. Last year, a devout, rabid (even fundamentalist if such a thing exists) atheist proposed the toast! Religious tolerance does exist